I see a world at Anfield where he goes three CBs and sticks Iwobi on the left . Realistically this was the game where even if we were on 6 points , we need to be more defensive. I maybe would also bring Tete in from the cold.
Baz: Normally it is only tipsy callers to BBC Radio 5’s 606 programme who demand a manager’s head after just three games but Jack’s article outlines the problem. Arbeloa actually believes Fulham can play eight in attack, copy Pep’s Manchester City without £50+ million players, blame the team for his own mistakes and alienate a section of the squad. This guy is a youth coach and probably a good one but, tactically, it’s been men against boys in our last three games. Even one point gained would have kept my fingers off the keyboard but I cannot see him radically changing his thinking. He lacks experience and from his manner humility. Get Eddie Howe in fast!
Good, sober analysis, Jack. I don't totally agree with how good you think Iwobi is. Metres run does not automatically equate to good off-the-ball midfield play. Iwobi is tracking and blocking channels.much more than he did under Silva, I'll give him that. But, he still very rarely wins tackles, very rarely makes interceptions, and amlost NEVER wins a 50/50, either on the ground or in the air. Personally I don't think that's acceptable for a central midfielder at this level, regardless of his (imho quite erratic) on-ball quality.
Also I think you really have to look at Palacios, who has been equally ineffective off the ball. He frequently fails to do his job out of possession, which then puts more pressure on Iwobi, who often then doesn't do his job, and the whole problem then compounds exponentially to give the CBs an impossible task to recover.
But I agree it's less a personnel problem and more an Arbeloa problem. People keep talking about needing 'faster' players, but if the whole system is entirely reliant on that, then it is not a very good system, and certainly is not fit-for-purpose in the PL. I'm not convinced Arbeloa can do it at this level regardless, and I'm annoyed our club has become a RM youth club experiment, I think we deserve better. But if he can prove me wrong I will gladly admit it and eat humble pie. I'm not holding my breath though, I think he'll be gone by the end of October.
It seems like in this system the CMs need to be much more conservative and connected; orchestrate the attack, sure, but from a deeper lying position. Iwobi’s heat map on Saturday showed him essentially playing as a left winger, and whether that was a result of his own tendencies or Arbeloa’s instructions it’s just asking way too much of our CBs and Shea Charles.
How do you see this compared to Arsenal and Chelsea? I think its very similar tactics, but with better defending players.
If we go Arsenal. Both White and Calafiori goes very high at the same time.
Lewis-Scelly and Rice are the two holding midfilders. Both of them push up high at times, but mostly one of them hold back.
The difference in my view is that Konsa is way better than Anderson. Gabriel is better than Bassey, but Bassey it not that much off. Lewis-Scelly has some similarities to Charles, but probably a little better. And Rice is way better than Iwobi.
The systems is very similar. The Fulham players are not good enough. But hopefully with Affengruber, Berge and Charles we will be better.
I love how Fulham are playing. With som tweeking I think this will be a very entertaining season!
I mean, to answer briefly - Chelsea are playing 3ATB, which means that as much as they are not defending transitions particularly well, it feels personnel related rather than structural - and also, they have a front three guaranteed goals in Palmer, Rogers and João Pedro, which is a luxury that we don't.
Arsenal are so incredibly fine tuned at this point, but watch their full back rotations and the way they drop in to make an extra midfielder in the system when the ball reaches the other side - it's more of a 2+3 than Chelsea's but there's still a more than capable covering defensive setup there. Yes, the individuals are better too, but they're in a system that works to their strengths rather than emphasises their weaknesses.
Fulham are fun, and entertaining; but I think it's borderline suicidal to continue to play like this with the level of players we have - because better teams will just beat you at your own game, and inferior teams can shut up shop and kill you on the counter. There needs to be a balance.
Fantastic read, thanks. You don’t need semi-colons before a clause beginning with ‘whilst’ as it is a subordinating conjunction, whilst a semi-colon is used to join two independent clauses together.
Hopefully more “teething problems” than a complete system / set-up issue. 3 games, new manager, half a new spine… Fingers crossed it’s improved for the big games after the international break where a better judgement can be made.
This is such a good analysis (hats off for the amount of work and insight that’s gone into this) and rereading after the Liverpool game I would love to see a similar article as our settling in period comes along (perhaps during the international break). Hopefully there will be sustained development for the WHU and Man U matches.
Gung-ho tactics. You are playing home, sitting on a 2-1 lead, do you really need to start the press so high, leaving the back line so exposed? The manager has to shoulder his responsibility and take away some of the blame directed at his players because of his crazy tactics
Interesting and very good. Lots of complaints that Lukic/Berge didnt create enough last season. So what is the right balance? We are creating more this season, but not managing games. I still feel that Anderson's lack of pace became a problem last season and still is.
I agree that Iwobi's work and skill are key, but needs to be further forward given turn overs.
I think not all doom and gloom, just have to find the 5-5 structure.
Thoughtful and added value commentary. Agree with current set-up we will ship goals. Presumably he HAS to try something different at Anfield
Probably the worst game we could ask for right now. Barcola will be looking forward to this one given our issues down the right and space behind.
Isaak hat-trick incoming.
Jack is just the best. Up the Irish whites 🇮🇪🤍
I see a world at Anfield where he goes three CBs and sticks Iwobi on the left . Realistically this was the game where even if we were on 6 points , we need to be more defensive. I maybe would also bring Tete in from the cold.
Baz: Normally it is only tipsy callers to BBC Radio 5’s 606 programme who demand a manager’s head after just three games but Jack’s article outlines the problem. Arbeloa actually believes Fulham can play eight in attack, copy Pep’s Manchester City without £50+ million players, blame the team for his own mistakes and alienate a section of the squad. This guy is a youth coach and probably a good one but, tactically, it’s been men against boys in our last three games. Even one point gained would have kept my fingers off the keyboard but I cannot see him radically changing his thinking. He lacks experience and from his manner humility. Get Eddie Howe in fast!
I second that emotion.
Good, sober analysis, Jack. I don't totally agree with how good you think Iwobi is. Metres run does not automatically equate to good off-the-ball midfield play. Iwobi is tracking and blocking channels.much more than he did under Silva, I'll give him that. But, he still very rarely wins tackles, very rarely makes interceptions, and amlost NEVER wins a 50/50, either on the ground or in the air. Personally I don't think that's acceptable for a central midfielder at this level, regardless of his (imho quite erratic) on-ball quality.
Also I think you really have to look at Palacios, who has been equally ineffective off the ball. He frequently fails to do his job out of possession, which then puts more pressure on Iwobi, who often then doesn't do his job, and the whole problem then compounds exponentially to give the CBs an impossible task to recover.
But I agree it's less a personnel problem and more an Arbeloa problem. People keep talking about needing 'faster' players, but if the whole system is entirely reliant on that, then it is not a very good system, and certainly is not fit-for-purpose in the PL. I'm not convinced Arbeloa can do it at this level regardless, and I'm annoyed our club has become a RM youth club experiment, I think we deserve better. But if he can prove me wrong I will gladly admit it and eat humble pie. I'm not holding my breath though, I think he'll be gone by the end of October.
Nice breakdown. Better than the one I'm having at the moment.
Joking. Give it time. Things will settle in.
It seems like in this system the CMs need to be much more conservative and connected; orchestrate the attack, sure, but from a deeper lying position. Iwobi’s heat map on Saturday showed him essentially playing as a left winger, and whether that was a result of his own tendencies or Arbeloa’s instructions it’s just asking way too much of our CBs and Shea Charles.
How do you see this compared to Arsenal and Chelsea? I think its very similar tactics, but with better defending players.
If we go Arsenal. Both White and Calafiori goes very high at the same time.
Lewis-Scelly and Rice are the two holding midfilders. Both of them push up high at times, but mostly one of them hold back.
The difference in my view is that Konsa is way better than Anderson. Gabriel is better than Bassey, but Bassey it not that much off. Lewis-Scelly has some similarities to Charles, but probably a little better. And Rice is way better than Iwobi.
The systems is very similar. The Fulham players are not good enough. But hopefully with Affengruber, Berge and Charles we will be better.
I love how Fulham are playing. With som tweeking I think this will be a very entertaining season!
I mean, to answer briefly - Chelsea are playing 3ATB, which means that as much as they are not defending transitions particularly well, it feels personnel related rather than structural - and also, they have a front three guaranteed goals in Palmer, Rogers and João Pedro, which is a luxury that we don't.
Arsenal are so incredibly fine tuned at this point, but watch their full back rotations and the way they drop in to make an extra midfielder in the system when the ball reaches the other side - it's more of a 2+3 than Chelsea's but there's still a more than capable covering defensive setup there. Yes, the individuals are better too, but they're in a system that works to their strengths rather than emphasises their weaknesses.
Fulham are fun, and entertaining; but I think it's borderline suicidal to continue to play like this with the level of players we have - because better teams will just beat you at your own game, and inferior teams can shut up shop and kill you on the counter. There needs to be a balance.
No Chelsea have 3 at the back
So basically we are playing like a Postecoglou team?
Fantastic read, thanks. You don’t need semi-colons before a clause beginning with ‘whilst’ as it is a subordinating conjunction, whilst a semi-colon is used to join two independent clauses together.
I hope the manager is listening
Hopefully more “teething problems” than a complete system / set-up issue. 3 games, new manager, half a new spine… Fingers crossed it’s improved for the big games after the international break where a better judgement can be made.
This is such a good analysis (hats off for the amount of work and insight that’s gone into this) and rereading after the Liverpool game I would love to see a similar article as our settling in period comes along (perhaps during the international break). Hopefully there will be sustained development for the WHU and Man U matches.
Gung-ho tactics. You are playing home, sitting on a 2-1 lead, do you really need to start the press so high, leaving the back line so exposed? The manager has to shoulder his responsibility and take away some of the blame directed at his players because of his crazy tactics
Interesting and very good. Lots of complaints that Lukic/Berge didnt create enough last season. So what is the right balance? We are creating more this season, but not managing games. I still feel that Anderson's lack of pace became a problem last season and still is.
I agree that Iwobi's work and skill are key, but needs to be further forward given turn overs.
I think not all doom and gloom, just have to find the 5-5 structure.
Fantastic analysis. I hope the other coaches are acting as guardrails to Arbeloa, nudging to a more pragmatic path.