Classic case of the stats DO lie, I'm afraid. He has most contributions because he gets targeted, and with good reason. What stats are there for how many times he is beaten and / or gives away a freekick? For how many times he gives the ball away per 90? For how many times he plays us into trouble by dallying on the ball or playing a hospital pass? For ho may times he jumps out and leaves us exposed? For how many times he fails to meet a cross? Positive stats are all relative to the risks a defender actually poses in a game, and Joa offers up a LOT of high impact risks per 90. He's not terrible, but we (and Diop) can do better. It's obvious to everyone with eyes.
Hi. Great points - glad you brought it up. I don’t know how many times he’s been beaten (which is a really important point).. But, in the defensive stats I can find he’s better than Diop in almost every defensive category except aerial duels. Bassey is better than Andersen one on one (and successful recoveries) but worse in almost every other category. Also, Andersen has a very high passing success rate despite making the most passes for the team (essentially equivalent to Diop’s, on a per 90 basis, while making about 20 more passes per game). My impression, don’t have the numbers yet, is that Team’s target Bassey when we have the ball, with the press, and not Andersen. They try to keep the ball out of Andersen’s feet. He is definitely not perfect though and his weakness, lack of foot speed, is a very big one for sure. But he is very good at a lot of things.
We bought at the top of his career path - Palace maxed their money and bought better. But he has leadership qualities absent elsewhere. Tete is vital to bolster his defensive abilities, Castagne and Andersen doesn’t work.
I believe the three at the back at Palace suited him better, where his lack of pace was less of an issue. His ability to pass long and (generally) accurately is a real asset in a team that builds so slowly from the back. If only Diop could pass long Andersen wouldn't get a game.
Andersen's pace is indeed a problem but there is no one who can out do in the long pass which is something we need badly. I think the issue is having a balanced defence including a pacy defensive midfielder playing in front of him
Here I was arguing yesterday that Diop starting over Andersen is a no brainer. This article sure makes me feel stupid. Though I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on how much of the number of contributions is the result of opposition targeting the right side of our defense? I know I’d rather try to beat Andersen and Castagne than Jedi/Sess and Bassey. And then where do the goals come from? Are opposition teams more successful with attacks down the left or right against us? All in all this article was eye opening. Thanks.
I think you need to put into context the price we paid approx £30m on a four/five year contract with an already apparent lack of pace in his prime years- which is only going one away. Even Bobby Moore was significantly exposed towards the end of his career when his brilliant reading of the game could no longer get him out of trouble. This isn’t a criticism of the player who is always trying his best but of the decision we made in buying him with that length of contract having already had him on loan .
I tend to agree that he is unfairly maligned. However his lack of pace is a problem. Marco managed to pick the slowest back four against Southampton - and it showed! None of them had any recovery pace. We need at least one pacy player at the back to cover any breaks from the opposition. Robinson, Diop and Bassey are quick (although I can't help think Bassey has gained a bit of muscle and lost half a yard of pace). We need quick full backs to play our system. I'm sad to say that Sess doesn't have the pace any longer to be in the back four. I think his future role (assuming he stays) will be as the utility player - cover for the wings and emergency full back. Key next season is bringing in two quicker, younger full backs to challenge Robinson and Tete.
I like Joa. Positives outweigh negatives. When done for pace he really tries hard to get back even if he doesn’t make it. Don’t think he did a lot wrong for Southampton penalty as he got back, got done by a good bit of skill & unlucky ball went through his legs.
Classic case of the stats DO lie, I'm afraid. He has most contributions because he gets targeted, and with good reason. What stats are there for how many times he is beaten and / or gives away a freekick? For how many times he gives the ball away per 90? For how many times he plays us into trouble by dallying on the ball or playing a hospital pass? For ho may times he jumps out and leaves us exposed? For how many times he fails to meet a cross? Positive stats are all relative to the risks a defender actually poses in a game, and Joa offers up a LOT of high impact risks per 90. He's not terrible, but we (and Diop) can do better. It's obvious to everyone with eyes.
Hi. Great points - glad you brought it up. I don’t know how many times he’s been beaten (which is a really important point).. But, in the defensive stats I can find he’s better than Diop in almost every defensive category except aerial duels. Bassey is better than Andersen one on one (and successful recoveries) but worse in almost every other category. Also, Andersen has a very high passing success rate despite making the most passes for the team (essentially equivalent to Diop’s, on a per 90 basis, while making about 20 more passes per game). My impression, don’t have the numbers yet, is that Team’s target Bassey when we have the ball, with the press, and not Andersen. They try to keep the ball out of Andersen’s feet. He is definitely not perfect though and his weakness, lack of foot speed, is a very big one for sure. But he is very good at a lot of things.
We bought at the top of his career path - Palace maxed their money and bought better. But he has leadership qualities absent elsewhere. Tete is vital to bolster his defensive abilities, Castagne and Andersen doesn’t work.
Great article, thank you. Yes, you can argue other ways but good to have some objectivity.
I believe the three at the back at Palace suited him better, where his lack of pace was less of an issue. His ability to pass long and (generally) accurately is a real asset in a team that builds so slowly from the back. If only Diop could pass long Andersen wouldn't get a game.
Andersen's pace is indeed a problem but there is no one who can out do in the long pass which is something we need badly. I think the issue is having a balanced defence including a pacy defensive midfielder playing in front of him
Here I was arguing yesterday that Diop starting over Andersen is a no brainer. This article sure makes me feel stupid. Though I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on how much of the number of contributions is the result of opposition targeting the right side of our defense? I know I’d rather try to beat Andersen and Castagne than Jedi/Sess and Bassey. And then where do the goals come from? Are opposition teams more successful with attacks down the left or right against us? All in all this article was eye opening. Thanks.
Superb article, subjective opinion formed by objective data. More like this pls!
I think you need to put into context the price we paid approx £30m on a four/five year contract with an already apparent lack of pace in his prime years- which is only going one away. Even Bobby Moore was significantly exposed towards the end of his career when his brilliant reading of the game could no longer get him out of trouble. This isn’t a criticism of the player who is always trying his best but of the decision we made in buying him with that length of contract having already had him on loan .
I tend to agree that he is unfairly maligned. However his lack of pace is a problem. Marco managed to pick the slowest back four against Southampton - and it showed! None of them had any recovery pace. We need at least one pacy player at the back to cover any breaks from the opposition. Robinson, Diop and Bassey are quick (although I can't help think Bassey has gained a bit of muscle and lost half a yard of pace). We need quick full backs to play our system. I'm sad to say that Sess doesn't have the pace any longer to be in the back four. I think his future role (assuming he stays) will be as the utility player - cover for the wings and emergency full back. Key next season is bringing in two quicker, younger full backs to challenge Robinson and Tete.
I like Joa. Positives outweigh negatives. When done for pace he really tries hard to get back even if he doesn’t make it. Don’t think he did a lot wrong for Southampton penalty as he got back, got done by a good bit of skill & unlucky ball went through his legs.