Can’t argue with the comments - Arbeloa doesn’t have the experience, nor do the players who have been brought in. That said - I’ve also seen a lot to be excited about and I think the boos are harsh. A refurb like this will take time and it’s game 3. I’d love nothing more than the youngsters to put a run together after the international break and get the fans onside.
It's always a risk employing inexperienced managers, particularly ones in their second ever professional role! But everyone has to start somewhere... as you say, there's no reason this can't be a learning experience, a chance for the team to regroup over the internationals and put together a proper run of games in potentially easier fixtures on paper.
The fans who booed should be ashamed. Yes, it was highly disappointing, and I was gutted watching the defensive follies—but it is only game three.
Yes, we are sitting 19th, but we are not adrift, and our forward play is some of the best we have seen in the Premier League. The problem is not Arbeloa’s new boys—Palacios is already proving last week’s doubters wrong—but some of the old guard who are struggling to cope. Berge, Andersen and even Iwobi dont fit .
Let’s see how the deadline-day signings perform. The reset will take time, and Arbeloa should be guaranteed a full season to prove that it works.
Sort out the defence and tighten up the midfield passing, and we could be witnessing the birth of a new Fulham. Hold tight—we are in for one hell of a ride. ….. The only way is up. COYW!
The booing is frustrating, and I don't think it's unique to Fulham - I think a lot of fanbases have a problem with patience (particularly some of the ones that have a lot more success than us!)
As you say, the attacking side of things is working nicely, we have a good nucleus of young players growing with each game, and it's worth remembering also that Dean Henderson's efforts saved two or three goals for Palace, whereas Leno definitely cost us at least one of the 3 we shipped.
Andersen looks well off it at the moment and I don't see how Affengruber doesn't start soon. Iwobi might be one to rotate with Palacios/Kevin/Sess on the left. Berge is tricky because he has some excellent qualities but doesn't have the reliable forward drive others in the position do. Larsson seems like he's worth a shot at some point though, so rotation might be the way to go in that slot?
As you say though, it'll take time, and we'll have quite the ride in the process!
Good commentary by Owen/ZZTopFulham as usual but some of the other commentators either didn't read your comments or couldn't get off their horse named "Fire the Khans, Fire the Manager." Your point--and confirmed by my own eyes from watching the game--was that the players brought in by Khan and Arbeloa this summer were good, showing some offensive nous and improving each week : Garcia, Palacios, Charles, et al. But we lost because the players brought in years ago and approved by Silva--Leno. Andersen, Bassey, Iwobi, etc.--made egregious defensive errors and let us down. BTW this was Leno's 100th game for Fulham. The logical conclusion is that we should fire Marco Silva but he cleverly left before his chosen players ran out of gas. And Owen, you were correct to wait until we see the results of the 3 games coming up vs. the supposedly weak teams before discussing the "R" word.
P.S. I think that you missed the loan out of Luc de Fugerolles. I agree that he is a potential PL starter but he is now with Real Salt Lake of the MLS until at least January. They are a mediocre team but he will be a short plane ride to the Canadian National Team and Jesse Marsh will be able to work with him on his game.
Well spotted on LDF! Must have missed that one. And thanks for the kind comment!
I think our old guard needs a shake up, and the new players can represent a positive challenge there. They either step up to the higher tempo we need or they lose their first team places to the new recruits. There's a long way to go and I'm sure there's still more for some of them to offer.
Thanks for the summary. Mr. Owen, I think your writing is amazing. I think Timmy C did well. I think you were too harsh. He left Andersen out to dry, but that’s on the coach, not him.
In attack Castagne was great, but he definitely suits a RWB role a lot more, because he doesn't have the defensive acumen you'd want from a right back (Tete being the obvious comparison; let's hope the rumours of him being excommunicated from the squad are just that). I do think you need more cooperation between your RB and RCB, and that's a two-way street - poor as Andersen was, you can't pin everything on him in a defence that's leaked 7 goals in 3 games.
Good point. Maybe going to a back 3 (or back 5 depending on how you want to look at it) with very high wing backs helps with that problem. By doing that we would remove a central midfielder that drops deep in possession. I don’t think the manager would do that, but I wonder how it would work.
Unfortunately his role as "back-up left back" means we probably can't afford to get him in the team for risk of Robinson injuring himself and not having proper cover. A shame, because he was good off the bench again today and should be involved in the attack.
I'd also suggest more scrutiny needs to be held on Robinson, but unfortunately Sess isn't really a long-term solution for LB, and we'd potentially run into the same problems at the back on the left with him there regularly...
Defensively laughable from a manager way out of his depth. The buck stops with the Khan's. Anyone who thought bringing in a manager with such little experience of English football, then letting him bring in players with no experience needs their head testing. We'll lose to Liverpool and Utd and I think anything less than 4 points from the Hull, Coventry and Hull games and Arbeloa will have to go. Then the farcical Khan managerial roundabout will be up and running again which we've all seen before. Complete incompetence from the ownership. The sad thing is, that's the worst Palace team in some years and we still managed to lose.
It feels rubbish now, and I agree that it will be an uncomfortable situation if we do drop points against Liverpool and United and then stumble in the games against the promoted sides. But it's early days still, and we have a lot of new parts that need time to settle. Whilst I do think we'll appreciate the stability Marco gave us in previous seasons as this one develops, I also think it's too early to write off Arbeloa entirely, particularly given the positive stuff already happening with the attack. We need to pull together through what's likely to be a tricky start, and see where we are after the October fixtures.
Arbeloa has no idea how to coach in the Premiership. Castagne is a liability. Iwobi has been overplayed for two seasons. Anderson is blown but replaceable with Affengruber. Always two recognised wingers from now on please. Khan has created this mess through his naivety and the longer he takes to fix it, the harder the season will become. Arbeloa will have to go so make it today. The only thing worse than a big mistake is to pretend it isn’t.
Even if Arbeloa has "no idea", sacking him now leaves us with a group of players specifically purchased for his system with potentially a new coach, attempting to find a more competent manager suited to our attacking principles but also able to coach a defence with the season underway, not to mention paying Arbeloa off a significant fee...
I think Arbeloa at least deserves the opportunity to see out the first part of the season - we're only three games in, two of which we were unlikely to win anyway. Let's see how we fare in the upcoming games before we dismiss our new manager entirely.
Arbeloa is the same as Parker, just at the other end of the tactical spectrum. In years to come we will look back on the start of this season as 'the failed experiment.'
The tactics are shambolic, we are attacking with 8 players, our backline is near mid pitch for most of the game. The opposing team just waits in numbers then counters into the huge space left behind. It is easy blaming Andersen, but the real culprit is the shambolic tactics that give us a load of possession but leaves us very open all over the field.
Great analysis and report as always Owen. I sit in Putney End and admit I screamed at the woeful defence in the second half. But I am happy to wait see how the new guys get on. It’s far too early to ask for AA to be fired. The positions some of our defence got in yesterday were not tactical, just awful awareness.
Couple of points on Garcia. A. Twice yesterday Garcia got in great positions for Castagne to pass to him; once Castagne shot poorly, the other he passed it out to a player in a poor position. Hopefully in time we will make the most of Garcia’s (and Palacios) positioning.
B. His industry is incredible. Yes he missed the ball for the goal, but he blocked the ball just before it and was scrambling up from that. Considering where he started on the pitch, to get back for last ditch defence was laudable.
Thanks John! I agree with what you've said here, I think there were some rather brazen errors from multiple members of the defence that weren't replicated by Palace's. Switch one of Henderson's saves around with a Leno error and the game reads a different way.
I also completely agree on Garcia - he has the energy and positivity of Muniz with finishing a lot closer to Raul than our Brazilian. There's definitely a lot to look forward to with him up front, not least the goals!
Hi Simon. It's certainly a riskier tactic, but I do think part of the problem is that the players responsible for keeping ward of our half are out of form, out of position or too slow. Andersen is the obvious culprit as you suggest, but only Bassey out of the two CMs and backline don't fit one of the three categories I list. If we can utilise the new signings, let the team settle, and maybe find a little more fortune than we did in the last game (i.e. keepers having worse games than Henderson did) and the results will hopefully start to arrive.
We need David and Kenny in for anderson and castagne also I would bring lencome in for Leno and think we would improve as offensively we looking better every game but to hold a lead iwobi looks redundant in this system so put him on the wing.positives,GG is looking a beaut up top ,king is really buying into into AA system as is Charles and Zepa.reasons to cheerful 123
Interesting ideas. I'd definitely want Tete as the regular started over Castagne for the upcoming games and Affengruber looks certain to make his debut soon. Charles looks very competent so we should hopefully feel confident in trying Larsson for a game there as well. The attacking has been solid and we can definitely look forward to a season with a confident King - with time they can hopefully get even more confident and deliver the victories this set of players is capable of!
Can’t argue with the comments - Arbeloa doesn’t have the experience, nor do the players who have been brought in. That said - I’ve also seen a lot to be excited about and I think the boos are harsh. A refurb like this will take time and it’s game 3. I’d love nothing more than the youngsters to put a run together after the international break and get the fans onside.
It's always a risk employing inexperienced managers, particularly ones in their second ever professional role! But everyone has to start somewhere... as you say, there's no reason this can't be a learning experience, a chance for the team to regroup over the internationals and put together a proper run of games in potentially easier fixtures on paper.
The fans who booed should be ashamed. Yes, it was highly disappointing, and I was gutted watching the defensive follies—but it is only game three.
Yes, we are sitting 19th, but we are not adrift, and our forward play is some of the best we have seen in the Premier League. The problem is not Arbeloa’s new boys—Palacios is already proving last week’s doubters wrong—but some of the old guard who are struggling to cope. Berge, Andersen and even Iwobi dont fit .
Let’s see how the deadline-day signings perform. The reset will take time, and Arbeloa should be guaranteed a full season to prove that it works.
Sort out the defence and tighten up the midfield passing, and we could be witnessing the birth of a new Fulham. Hold tight—we are in for one hell of a ride. ….. The only way is up. COYW!
The booing is frustrating, and I don't think it's unique to Fulham - I think a lot of fanbases have a problem with patience (particularly some of the ones that have a lot more success than us!)
As you say, the attacking side of things is working nicely, we have a good nucleus of young players growing with each game, and it's worth remembering also that Dean Henderson's efforts saved two or three goals for Palace, whereas Leno definitely cost us at least one of the 3 we shipped.
Andersen looks well off it at the moment and I don't see how Affengruber doesn't start soon. Iwobi might be one to rotate with Palacios/Kevin/Sess on the left. Berge is tricky because he has some excellent qualities but doesn't have the reliable forward drive others in the position do. Larsson seems like he's worth a shot at some point though, so rotation might be the way to go in that slot?
As you say though, it'll take time, and we'll have quite the ride in the process!
Good commentary by Owen/ZZTopFulham as usual but some of the other commentators either didn't read your comments or couldn't get off their horse named "Fire the Khans, Fire the Manager." Your point--and confirmed by my own eyes from watching the game--was that the players brought in by Khan and Arbeloa this summer were good, showing some offensive nous and improving each week : Garcia, Palacios, Charles, et al. But we lost because the players brought in years ago and approved by Silva--Leno. Andersen, Bassey, Iwobi, etc.--made egregious defensive errors and let us down. BTW this was Leno's 100th game for Fulham. The logical conclusion is that we should fire Marco Silva but he cleverly left before his chosen players ran out of gas. And Owen, you were correct to wait until we see the results of the 3 games coming up vs. the supposedly weak teams before discussing the "R" word.
P.S. I think that you missed the loan out of Luc de Fugerolles. I agree that he is a potential PL starter but he is now with Real Salt Lake of the MLS until at least January. They are a mediocre team but he will be a short plane ride to the Canadian National Team and Jesse Marsh will be able to work with him on his game.
Well spotted on LDF! Must have missed that one. And thanks for the kind comment!
I think our old guard needs a shake up, and the new players can represent a positive challenge there. They either step up to the higher tempo we need or they lose their first team places to the new recruits. There's a long way to go and I'm sure there's still more for some of them to offer.
Thanks for the summary. Mr. Owen, I think your writing is amazing. I think Timmy C did well. I think you were too harsh. He left Andersen out to dry, but that’s on the coach, not him.
Thanks!
In attack Castagne was great, but he definitely suits a RWB role a lot more, because he doesn't have the defensive acumen you'd want from a right back (Tete being the obvious comparison; let's hope the rumours of him being excommunicated from the squad are just that). I do think you need more cooperation between your RB and RCB, and that's a two-way street - poor as Andersen was, you can't pin everything on him in a defence that's leaked 7 goals in 3 games.
Good point. Maybe going to a back 3 (or back 5 depending on how you want to look at it) with very high wing backs helps with that problem. By doing that we would remove a central midfielder that drops deep in possession. I don’t think the manager would do that, but I wonder how it would work.
What has Sess done wrong? He was the scorer pre season and now doesn't get a start.
Unfortunately his role as "back-up left back" means we probably can't afford to get him in the team for risk of Robinson injuring himself and not having proper cover. A shame, because he was good off the bench again today and should be involved in the attack.
I'd also suggest more scrutiny needs to be held on Robinson, but unfortunately Sess isn't really a long-term solution for LB, and we'd potentially run into the same problems at the back on the left with him there regularly...
Yep. Robinson was given the ball so often but did nothing with it. Sess also has an eye for goal. Done with Robinson.
Defensively laughable from a manager way out of his depth. The buck stops with the Khan's. Anyone who thought bringing in a manager with such little experience of English football, then letting him bring in players with no experience needs their head testing. We'll lose to Liverpool and Utd and I think anything less than 4 points from the Hull, Coventry and Hull games and Arbeloa will have to go. Then the farcical Khan managerial roundabout will be up and running again which we've all seen before. Complete incompetence from the ownership. The sad thing is, that's the worst Palace team in some years and we still managed to lose.
It feels rubbish now, and I agree that it will be an uncomfortable situation if we do drop points against Liverpool and United and then stumble in the games against the promoted sides. But it's early days still, and we have a lot of new parts that need time to settle. Whilst I do think we'll appreciate the stability Marco gave us in previous seasons as this one develops, I also think it's too early to write off Arbeloa entirely, particularly given the positive stuff already happening with the attack. We need to pull together through what's likely to be a tricky start, and see where we are after the October fixtures.
Baz
Too early to panic? No.
Arbeloa has no idea how to coach in the Premiership. Castagne is a liability. Iwobi has been overplayed for two seasons. Anderson is blown but replaceable with Affengruber. Always two recognised wingers from now on please. Khan has created this mess through his naivety and the longer he takes to fix it, the harder the season will become. Arbeloa will have to go so make it today. The only thing worse than a big mistake is to pretend it isn’t.
Even if Arbeloa has "no idea", sacking him now leaves us with a group of players specifically purchased for his system with potentially a new coach, attempting to find a more competent manager suited to our attacking principles but also able to coach a defence with the season underway, not to mention paying Arbeloa off a significant fee...
I think Arbeloa at least deserves the opportunity to see out the first part of the season - we're only three games in, two of which we were unlikely to win anyway. Let's see how we fare in the upcoming games before we dismiss our new manager entirely.
Arbeloa is the same as Parker, just at the other end of the tactical spectrum. In years to come we will look back on the start of this season as 'the failed experiment.'
The tactics are shambolic, we are attacking with 8 players, our backline is near mid pitch for most of the game. The opposing team just waits in numbers then counters into the huge space left behind. It is easy blaming Andersen, but the real culprit is the shambolic tactics that give us a load of possession but leaves us very open all over the field.
Great analysis and report as always Owen. I sit in Putney End and admit I screamed at the woeful defence in the second half. But I am happy to wait see how the new guys get on. It’s far too early to ask for AA to be fired. The positions some of our defence got in yesterday were not tactical, just awful awareness.
Couple of points on Garcia. A. Twice yesterday Garcia got in great positions for Castagne to pass to him; once Castagne shot poorly, the other he passed it out to a player in a poor position. Hopefully in time we will make the most of Garcia’s (and Palacios) positioning.
B. His industry is incredible. Yes he missed the ball for the goal, but he blocked the ball just before it and was scrambling up from that. Considering where he started on the pitch, to get back for last ditch defence was laudable.
I am hopeful for the season. Keep the faith.
Thanks John! I agree with what you've said here, I think there were some rather brazen errors from multiple members of the defence that weren't replicated by Palace's. Switch one of Henderson's saves around with a Leno error and the game reads a different way.
I also completely agree on Garcia - he has the energy and positivity of Muniz with finishing a lot closer to Raul than our Brazilian. There's definitely a lot to look forward to with him up front, not least the goals!
Hi Simon. It's certainly a riskier tactic, but I do think part of the problem is that the players responsible for keeping ward of our half are out of form, out of position or too slow. Andersen is the obvious culprit as you suggest, but only Bassey out of the two CMs and backline don't fit one of the three categories I list. If we can utilise the new signings, let the team settle, and maybe find a little more fortune than we did in the last game (i.e. keepers having worse games than Henderson did) and the results will hopefully start to arrive.
Cheer up everyone. We were first up on Match of the Day and we weren't playing a top six side.
We need David and Kenny in for anderson and castagne also I would bring lencome in for Leno and think we would improve as offensively we looking better every game but to hold a lead iwobi looks redundant in this system so put him on the wing.positives,GG is looking a beaut up top ,king is really buying into into AA system as is Charles and Zepa.reasons to cheerful 123
Interesting ideas. I'd definitely want Tete as the regular started over Castagne for the upcoming games and Affengruber looks certain to make his debut soon. Charles looks very competent so we should hopefully feel confident in trying Larsson for a game there as well. The attacking has been solid and we can definitely look forward to a season with a confident King - with time they can hopefully get even more confident and deliver the victories this set of players is capable of!